Curse

P_A_A · Nov 02, 2010, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Quote:

Yeah... and the point? Please go into more detail.

Proving your statement "When you use Control when your team is built around your build." is false.

Life Bringing · Nov 02, 2010, 11:09 PM // 23:09

I'm going to try really hard to make you understand. I doubt i will be successful, but at least i tried.

Quote:

100% of the things that were argued is in my original post.

They are being argued, because your original post was wrong. You had so many contradicting stands on issues, along with many points just being flat out wrong. Had your posts been based on factual evidence and had you done things more intelligently(like not arguing deep tactics with the creators), this thread would have turned out differently. Also, your thread title completely contradicts your previous post, which is misleading to a casual reader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeBringing

I mean...the only guys that run that are PuG's and PuG's won't read the forum anyway.

Get your quotes right please. I did not say this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Life Bringing

Oh, sorry i didn't realize that putting PS+SoA onto your heroes counted as your team being built around your team. I guess SoH+GDW+MoP+Orders doesn't count as building your team around your build, right?

You appear to have skipped over this. I though i'd repost it for you since you were so confused about SoA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Most of the support for tanking in this thread mainly mentions tanking in heavily structured teams for specific areas.

Actually, much of what has been said here has been referring to general h/h setups. And no, you don't have to be running builds like EFGJack's to make effective use of tanking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

/facepalm, alerting a mod about posts purposely flaming like this.

Also would like to point out that Calista is a mod so....

Reverend Dr · Nov 03, 2010, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

Also - Your entire postings are still very much not making sense. You've contradicted yourself soo much I'm barely believing that you have a clue what you're talking about,enough of a clue that would warrant you the continuation of this thread.

I'd suggest a very prompt rewrite of your post again without the idiotic statements and fallacies.

I'll be honest. There is not one person in this thread that is making sense. (I never make sense)

Unfortunately "tanking" as a concept has been around so long that one cannot simply talk about "tanking" in one game or in one instance, instead you have to talk about the history of tanking, how it evolved, why it evolved, what it has done, the enduring paradigm that has been left within the MMO mindset, and how a new system must overcome previous conventions.

Also, tanking in GW sucks.

cellardweller · Nov 03, 2010, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Rename the thread "bringing a bunch of defensive skills the warrior's bar sucks" and the arguments over semantics will end.

Reverend Dr · Nov 03, 2010, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Rename the thread "bringing a bunch of defensive skills the warrior's bar sucks" and the arguments over semantics will end.

Save Yourself

Also "tanking" isn't just about skills on a bar, it is a mindset that has been reinforced since the days of MUDs.

cellardweller · Nov 03, 2010, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Save Yourself

Ok, it'll replace one semantic argument with another

Quote:

Also "tanking" isn't just about skills on a bar, it is a mindset that has been reinforced since the days of MUDs.

Except that tanking with just basic defense skills in your backline doesn't suck thanks to the huge kills speed increases you get at no cost.

Warrior Babes · Nov 03, 2010, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

When not to Tank:
When there is no tank-n-spanking. Simple as that, tanking 3 Titans is meaningless when you can just as easily kill them. Unless your team is built around you tanking, then tank. If not, then use your killing machine class to kill.

ok, the 3red dudes are the ''titans'', what looks best left or right?
placing urself in a correct spot doesnt take more time then running to that 1 foe either. (this is tanking techniques =/= tank'n'spank)

tbh ur thread has more off ''why physway owns'' then ''why tanking sucks''
the only thing u are using casters for is ''buffing the melee'' and ''healing''.
but if u would be using ur ele for something else then just healing, and threw some AoE spells in the bar, u would be happy ur melee positions him like the picture on the right.. my guess.

you seem to think that tanking takes ages, which isnt rly true.. there are some other differences (+ and - ) for both though.
differences:
Tank'n'spank:
1) - ur not using this for vanquishes/questing/anything u can do with yourself and ur dog. Because: Tank'n'spank got fast in certain areas because the tank knows how to tank.. it doesnt change.. always the same, no1 is taking time to learn how to tank ''raisu palace'' for example. (using tanking techniques there is + ofcourse <<)
2) - ur tank is slow.. doesnt know what he is doing, this will make stuff very slow ''ur team depends on 1 player (the tank)'' (for most part <<)
3) + its faster in elite areas, just because of the huge mobs that can be balled,
and its not that the spike team has to w8 for ages for the ball. in The Deep spikers are having trouble to keep up (say what)

Physway (or randomway stuff.. something without a tank!):
1) + in most cases, u can go in without knowledge of the area..
2) + ur team doesnt rly depend on 1 player, if that 1 melee is bad/slow, no1 will notice.
3) - its slower in elite area's.. killing 30foes at once is faster then killing same group 1 by 1. (common sense?)

so tanking sucks? no
random stuff sucks? no
just know when to use what and what ur playstyle is.

Perfected Shadow · Nov 04, 2010, 01:18 AM // 01:18

tanking skills != tanking 'skills'

The difference? One includes things like Shadow Form, Defy Pain, etc (let's call this set defy pain). The other includes balling, bodyblocking, positioning, etc. (let's call this set skillz).

So there are 4 things you can do:
1. Use both defy pain and skillz, which is what most speedclears do iirc
2. Use skillz only (usually requires non braindead backline)
3. Use defy pain only (mostly done in disorganized pugs)
4. Use neither (just run around and kill shit)

So this thread is just trying to say case 3 is bad (didn't really read the walls of text so meh).

impulsion · Nov 04, 2010, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

1. Tanking Migrates Damage, increasing your team’s survivability.
That is correct, tanking does migrate damage but not as well as it should.
- AI reacts to damage taken and given. Depending on how much is being done they will ignore their current target (the tank) for a more suitable party member (the healer). This could actually reduce team survivability than increase it.

Ummm... 99% of all effective PvE builds mitigate dmg via a "tank". A human player with seed of life or healing seed etc. or minions with dwanyas sorrow, moving the dmg on to 1 player in a controlled way provides massive benefits over allowing it to go just anywhere. The only time this would reduce team survivability is if your team set-up / players are completely retarded, and thus has nothing to do with tanking but rather player skill.

Quote:

My focus here will be The Deep, this is perfect because it has three levels of skill which it can be done.
a. Tank-n-spank, nuker style. Everyone and their mother did this one time or another. It requires at least 3 tanks, 4 or so nukers, some monks and necro’s with one a BiP. The idea is ball up all enemies in a room while players run in and hit the foes. The most memorable thing about this is it can take over an hour. Either enough damage isn’t done, tanks die and/or the team nearly wipes. This tactic is very slow and overall isn’t safe.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Go in with a bunch of idiots and you will fail regardless of what builds you are running.

Quote:

c. Tank-n-spank. Hex style, hexes are by far superior to nuking in Guild Wars. Most can trigger indefinitely in the time limit and some even have AoE effects which makes them even deadlier. While Searing Flames could deal 90+ fire AoE damage by the time you cast that ball of Oni could have taken five times that damage from Spiteful Spirit.

OH snap! I'm gonna use degen and hexes to spike for DoA records now. Your "example" is the most biased thing I have ever seen in my life. While SS could deal 0+ net damage by the time you waited 6 hours that ball of hungers could have been killed 100 times over by a 100b warrior.

Quote:

3. Body blocking isn’t that useful
- The great thing about protecting your backline is you can body block the enemy. So reducing damage while you’re blocking that Destroy of Flesh is good, but don’t expect it to be a team savior. The biggest flaw is, tanking is frontline. While you’re holding a few Destroyer attention, it’s a bad idea to run to your monk to body block that one Destroyer

Ummm OK, body blocking means you block the enemies from getting to your monk in the first place - so you are saying the biggest flaw to body-blocking is if you don't block :s

Calista Blackblood · Nov 04, 2010, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

This thread has gone straight to flaming. Please get it out.

Nobody is flaming,It's your inability to accept and understand criticism.

If you don't like it,I'm quite happy to lock this thread because it won't go further without you willing to listen.

paranon · Nov 04, 2010, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

c. Tank-n-spank. Hex style, hexes are by far superior to nuking in Guild Wars. Most can trigger indefinitely in the time limit and some even have AoE effects which makes them even deadlier. While Searing Flames could deal 90+ fire AoE damage by the time you cast that ball of Oni could have taken five times that damage from Spiteful Spirit.
The Deep is a good example that tanking does work and not work, depending on the team setup.

If im not wrong, you are saying that tanking in deep with a hex team works well. so why is your thread title "why tanking sucks"?

Either you can't get your point across and i have misunderstood why you wrote this, or you are retarded and argue against yourself in your own argument.